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NZ Tramper Forums
Ruatuki: Since almost all my tramping is in backcountry about as remote as you can get in the North Island, and solo, safety is my first priority. I am prudent, perhaps cautious, and am well prepared. However, the stress of those close to me when am in the mountains detracts a little from the experience. I had looked at getting a personal locator beacon (PLB).
The first choice is GPS enabled or not. PLBs with a GPS onboard are more expensive but can send your exact (if you can get a gps signal) location with your distress call. The newer 406MHz beacons also send unique information that identifies the unit sending the signal and contact details of the owner, perhaps helping with the search.
A good deal of my tramping is river routes often with steep sides. My Garmin map60 struggles, often with one or two satellites only. In this situation, would a GPS enabled PLB get help to me any faster than one without? Where you can get a GPS fix, this feature can get help almost straight to you. Having decided to spend the $$$s on a GPS PLB, I came across the SPOT messenger and it has
added a whole new option.
The Spot messenger (google findmespot) has an onboard GPS and can send a distress signal but also has some other, very useful, functions. The first thing that caught my attention was the ability to send an 'I'm OK' signal with your current location. This goes to a phone as a SMS and/or email as a Google Maps link. Awesome! Now I can let them know where I am and that I am fine. Everyone's happy. It can also send a 'Help me' message for non life threatening emergencies as well as a "911 request" for a full blown emergency. All messages have your current location (if you can get a gps fix).
This additional functionality comes with using a commercial satellite system and therefore there is a yearly subscription cost at around USD$100 with some more functions available at a further cost. This means that the signal will be detected in the US not in NZ although it will be passed on immediately, it does add another 'cog in the wheel' and a place for failure. Forums in the US are full of problems with getting a signal although New Zealand and Australia apparently have very good, strong signal coverage.
I have been unable to find very much feedback on this product in used in NZ. Anyone have a comment? Sorry for the longgg post :-(
Pmcke: There has been some discussion about this on the Recreation GPS user's society forum. See http://forums.gps....opic.php?f=7&t=3687
But the important thing to remember about the SPOT messenger is that it uses a completely different system to the tried and true COMPAS-SARSAT system. Apart from salesman's talk, we don't yet really know how reliable a "911" request on a SPOT messenger will be.
I quote here baldEd's post from the above discussion
"The GPS enabled PLB's (Personal Locator Beacons) operate on 406 MHz, the special frequency allocated for satellite search and rescue use. I couldn't see what frequency SPOT operated on - but it is obviously not the official 406MHz SAR one as SPOT requires a third party (friends, family, SPOT central etc) to notify the SAR centre. SPOT uses commercial satellites (with user pays charges) and does not have worldwide coverage.
PLB's on the other hand utilise the global COMPAS-SARSAT system (comprising of both geostationary and polar orbiting satellites) and raise the alarm in the SAR centres which have installed the appropriate ground facility. All 406MHz PLB's are registered with their country of sale's government SAR centre, eg in NZ (for NZ sales) the owners' PLB registration details are kept by the MARITIME NZ Rescue Coordination Centre, Lower Hutt."
Ruatuki: pmcke, thanks for the link. I am not so concerned with what satellites it uses, as long as they are cheap, my main concern with the SPOT is that it does not have a 121.5 MHz homing signal (as far as I can see). This means that if it is set off where it can't get a gps fix there is no signal for SAR to follow to it. The
GME 406 beacons have a homing signal for air and land searchers to follow for direction. However, if I am able to send regular fixes of where I am when I do not satellite coverage, searchers should have a small area to cover. Perhaps carry both? That's lots of $$$. The ability to send an "I'm OK" message with location is tantalising, especially on multi day tramps.
Pmcke: I agree with your last comment that the ability to sent "I'm OK" messages is an advantage. My concern is that people understand the difference
Bigpaul: The dilemma is familia. I too have family that have to grin and bare it when i wander off alone. its a toss up between keeping them stress free and affording me the luxury of dislocation from the fast paced world we live in (that includes my own guilt complex of remaining out of touch when i know i have signal for my mobile phone). Most of the dilemma is there because 24 hrs per day anywhere in the world contact is almost possible and most people dont want to understand why you would want the isolation. Safety for me still remains
with the planning and execution. I continue to resist the EPIRB option because selfishly i feel it detracts from my experience. Ahh i hear you say but what happens if you have an accident.
Two answers:
1/ this is going to hurt and its going to take me a while longer to get out.
2/ My planning includes clear information that i dont detour from when walking sit tight its going to take a while longer to get out and its going to hurt. Either way EPIRB or planning my family are going to go through it emotionally. Selfish? yup! but some times "because" is enough of an answer.
Ralph: We had an incident not to long ago and needed urgent assistance. We had both spot x and epirb with us. The epirb was detected within 45 minutes and the spot x failed to register even the following morning. My view would have to be that the epirb is your last and best chance for survival and the spot x is gadget for entertainment of your freinds and self once out of the bush. That said it must be
better than nothing at all.
Lgwaddel: has anybody tried a Sat phone
Bigpaul: I watched a guy with a sat phone in deep gorge country climb to the tops out of the bush to get a clear signal. seemed to defeat the purpose. And Ralph theres that argument again. (It must be better than nothing?)
Question: was the response time the same or better than anything else?
Calvert: There is a thread on personal locator beacons under gear. The ATC has bought 3 the other day. I have heaps of stuff on them, worked into a proposal to get them, which I can email to anyone who wants them. Can I put it somewhere on tramper.co?
Freewebs.com: My 60 gps (csx) or wateva it is has no prob with satilites as long as you leave it on. Another option is mountain radio.
Pmcke: The 60CSX is a GPS, not a PLB. Different satellites
freewebs.com: We are experienced enough to know that our little gaget is not a PLB. Just saw he was having problems with his GPS aquiring satellites down deep holes! Also if you leave GPS on, its lasts about 5 days.
Ruatuki: Mountain radios have never been a real option for me as a solo tramper. They are heavy and if I am injured to the point of needing evacuation then I am unlikely to be able to string the aerial up in order to summon help. Again, the feature of SPOT I like is the ability to send an 'I'm OK' message with location.
Numbat: A thoroughly recommended accessory. I have had some experience with them, not actually using them in an emergency but from the view of SAR. One of the problems with search and rescue is the enormous amount of time actually finding lost people. You have to follow every clue, every mark, every gully and look under every bush. It is a huge workload. If the tramper has a beacon, this is all bypassed. The search party can put it's efforts into finding the tramper, not looking where he aint. Keep in mind that it's all volunteer work.
Yakernz: I have used the Spot Messenger extensively here in NZ over the last 7 months, even before they were available in NZ. I have previously owned a PLB and have weighed up the pros and cons of both. I have done a quick review and been collecting other peoples reviews on my blog htpp://yakers.co.nz
http://yakers.co.n...en-delivery-of.html
The long and the short they do work here in NZ although I have found track mode fails to update at times and you might only get one message though every 30-60 min. Not a show stopper because with OK or help mode I have found the messages to be reliable as it keeps retrying 3 times every 5 or 10min? Providing the unit has a clear view of the sky the help and ok messages appear to be sent more reliably. Haven't tried the emergency function yet for obvious reasons but I think this should be reliable.
The biggest advantage is that you can request assistance without calling in the cavalry and don't have to be conscious for it to be effective. The search can be drastically reduced by search from the last known location if you are incapacitated or fail to turn up.
I am not advocating it as a replacement to PLB just that they both have their pros and cons which you need to understand. There is a good article in the reviews above about the differences.If anyone is in Wellington and wants to take a look at one drop me a message.
Matthew: calvert, post it as an article if you like.
Mariku: For me, it's pretty clear:
1. Definitely a 406 beacon.
2. Definitely GPS enabled. In most cases the GPS should work, and the added location data is priceless in an emergency, since it can shorten a search by many hours or even days.
3. A SPOT device is not an emergency locator beacon. It has several shortcomings that make it unfit for that purpose. One of them is that it's a pay servcie, which means that if you haven't paid your fees, it is unclear if your emergency call will be forwarded. Another one is that if you are using it for messaging as well, you are depleting batteries that you may need for an
emergency. Also, the system as such just does not have a very long track record yet, as far as its reliability goes, and one hears mixed results. While the messaging functionality may be useful for some trips, I would definitely NOT trust SPOT to be a replacement of a locator beacon. If you can afford and carry it, by all means take both; but if you have to choose one, choose the 406 locator beacon.
4. Whatever signaling device you choose, make sure that does not lead you to let down your guard in any other safety aspect of tramping.
Happy trails! Cheers, Matt
Izogi: There's an article which I found really interesting from the August Outside Magazine, which looks at the impact of SPOT beacons (specifically) on SAR callouts since their introduction.
http://www.outside...l/Panic-Button.html (It's 5 pages, page links at the end.)
It seems to start with a tone implying there are lots of silly people who should be fined, but looks at some other perspectives towards the end.
It probably doesn't all apply in NZ. I don't fully understand the state of PLB use in the US, but the implication I take from the article is that there's been very little PLB or EPIRB ownership until now and a SPOT is a very new thing for many of its owners, so maybe it's just a similar effect to what's happened in other places when EPIRBs and PLBs became popular. I'm unsure if I've understood this fully, though.
Normclimb: This one was flagged as well...!
